Talk:Narnian timeline
I have compared this timeline to the earliest published, which is the one in Walter Hoopers "Past Watchful Dragons" published in 1979 (10 years prior of Brian Sibleys work). As it differs slightly in wording I changed it to match these earliest texts as they are, most likely, the closest to C.S. Lewis own wording, as I don't trust Collins, now HarperCollins with being the most accurate, as the timeline they provide today is even more heavily edited and changed from what was presented here AND in Hoopers "Past Watchful Dragons". The only change I made to these texts was replacing the abbreviations "K." and "Q." with "King" and "Queen" respectively. In order to stay truest to Lewis Canon, I think this, his own timeline in his own words and stated as that in the main article, should be left with as minimal changes as would be necessary. Therefore, I changed this in order to replicate the Timeline in its earliest published, pure and unchanged form known. There were also the additions of Wikia users that I removed, because as it was presented as "C.S. Lewis' Timeline of Narnia so far as it is known" any change or addition rendered it not being "C.S. Lewis own timeline that he wrote" anymore, but Wikia's own timeline. Not to say that Wikia can't have its own timeline of Narnia, go ahead and do one using the old one as a template in a sub-section, however, saying it was "C.S. Lewis' Timeline of Narnia" wasn't correct as it wasn't C.S. Lewis timeline as he wrote it. ReepI 02:15, April 26, 2010 (UTC) :Good call, but if you have access to both "officially published" versions, please add the changes in the later editions in footnotes, so that comparisons can be made, and readers with just the later edition don't think "this is wrong!" and go ahead and edit it without checking here. --xensyriaT 23:40, July 10, 2012 (UTC) Edmund and Lucy If Edmund was born late in 1930 and Lucy early in 1932, that would put their births not much more than a year apart, close enough for casual mention. Also, the "Controversy" paragraph seems to imply that Lucy is older than Edmund… HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 11:30, May 20, 2019 (UTC) : Have made some changes following your suggestion – feel free to jump in and make some changes to it directly if you want to! --xensyriaT 14:07, May 20, 2019 (UTC) ::Looks good, cheers! —Phil | Talk 07:48, May 21, 2019 (UTC) Telmarine Pirates Given the timeline listed, wouldn't the 12 pirates that came in 460 NY, be able to wield machine guns and other technologies? I can see how they took over so easily then. 6 pirates with their wives controlling a whole colony would make sense . However, I am starting to think that the Telmarines are not necessarily Spanish oriented, but Japanese. As they began invading the pacific region before the events of WW2 which syncs up with the timeline. Moran half valar (talk) 04:30, June 20, 2019 (UTC) The timeline does state what Narnian year they arrive in, but it makes no mention of what year on earth. And since there doesn't seem to be any consistency in the time difference between worlds, I suppose they could have come from any time period, but Lewis never had any humans bring any modern day weapons to Narnia, so I doubt it. However, the reason why the original Telmarines took over from the first Calormen settlers, was not because of their weapons or anything, but because the Calormenes were so cruel that Aslan turned them all into dumb beasts (Narnian year 302), so the land was abandoned when the Telmarines arrived. I'm not sure about them being Japanese, as any description made about them in the books didn't say anything about them being Asian, and, again I'm not sure, but the Telmarines were said to have a Gryphon as their coat of arms, which is something that the Japanese don't use. Any description made of a Telmarine in the books did sound like it could be Spanish oriented. Storyseeker1 (talk) 16:14, June 20, 2019 (UTC) Ty for answering Storyseeker1, but I disagree on the following points. 1. They are listed as pirates, therefore, they would have had to have some type of gun powder weapons brought into Narnia, this is okay, because by the time of Caspian 1 the Conquerer, they would have been unusable or there would have been no ammo for them, which is the most likely reason Telmar went from Pirate lordship to a Monarchy under Caspian I. Pirates can use guns but most likely didn't know how to make them. 2. Per your own wiki, it states that MOST of the Calormenes were turned to dumb beasts, but those that remained slipped into an anarchist state: https://narnia.fandom.com/wiki/Calormen So, there were Calormenes there and 160 years is a longtime to re-populate. 3. The Gryphon as their coat of arms no doubt probably comes from the fact that Calormenes were ex-Archanland people. Therefore, they would have roots to Narnia and England--remember that the Gryphon was adopted during Caspian I's reign and not the Pirates reign. 4. Let's say I agree with you and they are spanish conquistadors. Then they would still have guns and they didn't start taking over Pacific Islands until the 1500s. The line about Pirates and their wives, seems to suggest that they are in fact real pirates who took over the region but had a dispute with other fellow pirates. https://narnia.fandom.com/wiki/Pacific_Ocean 5. Maybe they are Japanese, and maybe they are not, are we saying that different points on earth send people to different times of Narnia? Telmarines are not that described in detail and I feel that them being considered spanish just based on sound is a weak argument. Though I can agree with you if you are saying that different areas send people to Narnia in different time periods, however, I do believe the 1500s is the most likely time for the Pirates--and they would still have gunpowder weapons. 6. Lastly and I appreciate everyone reading so far, We know that the Telmarine people had to be people that explored the Pacific Ocean, so we can't go all the way back to Ancient Times and say they were Sea Peoples, because they didn't explore the Pacific Ocean. I tend to agree with you Storyseeker that the ships would have to be wooden and storms would have to hamper the sailing ability as in WW1/WW2 storms don't matter as much to the ships. So I am convinced that they could be set in the 1500s, but gun powder weapons for the initial settlers of Telmar would have to be there. Moran half valar (talk) 18:26, June 20, 2019 (UTC) 2. Thanks for pointing this out, as this causes a contradictory bit of information. The official timeline, written by Lewis, states that the calormenes were turned into beasts in 302 because of their wicked ways, and in the book Aslan states "And so they fell, or rose, or blundered, or dropped right through, and found themselves in this world, in the Land of Telmar which was then unpeopled". This confirms that the land was vacant when the Telmarines arrived. I've already corrected the page. 3. Not necessarily, as a Gryphon was used by many countries on earth, not just England, because it was said to be a sign of great strength (some still use it today), and at one time it was also used as a symbol of Christ. Another possibility is that the Telmarines/Calormenes would have known about Gryphons of Narnia, as anyone could have told them, and they simply used them as their coat of arms, again because of how strong they looked. 4. Doubtful, as the pirates who came to Narnia were exiles. They were exiled by the other pirates, and then they and their wives went to the centre of the island and eventually found their way to Narnia. Pirates were known to be vicious, and it's doubtful they would allow anyone they exiled to have any weapons, in case they tried coming back to cause trouble. 5. Sorry, but I don't believe for a moment they are in anyway Japanese. I know a little bit about Japanese custom, beliefs and such, mainly from anime and documentaries, and from what I know about their culture, none of it is similar in anyway to the Telmarines mentioned in Narnia. 6. Even if they had gunpowder guns, they wouldn't have had the means to make more gunpowder (we don't even know if Narnia had the ingredients needed to make the powder). Storyseeker1 (talk) 21:06, June 20, 2019 (UTC) I agree with you Storyseeker1 thank you for clarifying. I am actually immersed in Japanese customs and beliefs myself (my cousins are Japanese), however,, the only reason I thought on this was because of the linear timeline that was presented. If you say that the time flow from earth to Narnia is weird and distorted, then I can get behind that as I said earlier. Thank you for bring the direct quote from the book. I had thought as much but I haven't read Horse and His Boy in a LONG TIME! So I didn't want to change anything and make it wrong. If you feel they are Conquistadors, then good, I am right there with ya, and I am comfortable with everything. You are right that they may have been stripped by their fellow Pirates and sent away, but we really don't know. It was fun to speculate. So thank you for the conversation and answering. Moran half valar (talk) 03:01, June 21, 2019 (UTC) No problem. Good to talk. You only have to look at the timeline to know that it is distorted, as Narnia wasn't created until 1900 (earth time), yet the Telmarine's ancestors were pirates, which must have been hundreds of years ago, waaay before Narnia ever come to life. Incidentally, the quote I mentioned was from the Prince Caspian book. Storyseeker1 (talk) 19:07, June 21, 2019 (UTC) : This could be worth adding as a bullet point to the list of controversies... --xensyriaT 21:39, June 21, 2019 (UTC) Well I think Storyseeker solved the dilemma. So I stand by this, especially the quote from Caspian. Also I want to add, what happened to the Garden of Youth? Could the Telmarines have taken the Silver Apples that grew there? What happened to this area? Moran half valar (talk) 21:49, June 21, 2019 (UTC) Whatever happened to the Garden of Youth was never explained in any of the books, but since it is never mentioned again, I'm assuming that after Diggory got the apple with which he was able to plant and grow the Tree of Protection, the garden simply vanished from Narnia. It is never explained, but I believe that since the garden was Aslans', then it was never really in Narnia to begin with, and is most likely in Aslan's Country (Heaven). I believe that Aslan created a way for Diggory and the White Witch to find their way into the garden, to get their hands on the apples, which in turn led to Diggory planting the tree of protection, and the witch getting exiled from Narnia. After everything was done, the garden was then simply returned to Aslan's Country. (This is, of course, just a theory.) Storyseeker1 (talk) 01:57, June 22, 2019 (UTC) Well most of this wiki suggests that it is near Telmar, and the Telmarines had to go through it to conquer Narnia--at least that's what it says on this wiki: https://narnia.fandom.com/wiki/Tree_of_Youth Moran half valar (talk) 03:31, June 22, 2019 (UTC)